High-End Single Core GPU VS High-End Dual Core GPU(RADEON 4870 X2 VS GeForce 280 GTX)

[Lucky Luke]

Guys, I really need your wisest word of advice here. I am now confused.

The root of confusion lies in this question "Which GPU performs better? A High-End Single Core GPU or High-End Dual Core GPU?"

This question is referring to the newly launched ATI RADEON 4870 X2 on the market recently. I was so surprised to know that the card is already out on the market retailed at S$790 (US$607 after shipping cost here in Singapore). However, I decided not to buy yet due to that question above.

I went around a few shops to check for price variations and I saw no variations at all. It was really competitive here. There was a shop I visited who never sell Dual-Core GPUs at all (EG: 9800 GX2 or 3870 X2) because the salesman said that both cores in that single GPU casing are interfaced to 1 PCI-Express X16 slot only which of course has its limitations. Thus, combining 2 cores into 1 GPU would not have an optimised overall output performance. Moreover, I was also surprised to check out the price that the GeForce 280GTX and ATI Radeon 4870 X2 HAS THE SAME PRICE DESPITE OF the ATI Radeon 4870 X2 having dual cores instead of 1.

So..what does this conclude to? Is it true that dual-core GPUs have performance limitations when interfaced to a PCI-Express X16 slot?

Another question is, I noticed there are significant price variations among different GPU manufacturers of the same GPU models. Eg: an ASUS 280GTX costs S$799 and a Gigabyte 280GTX costs S$699. Why is this so? Is Gigabyte engineered the card at lower specs than ASUS? Btw, US$1 is roughly S$1.30. Thanks for your answers :):)

[Radiator]

Well , that store fella is BSing you - a PCI-e X16 interface doesn't limit cards .
The GX2 is connected by a SLi bridge and not a PCIe x16 interface anyway .
The HD 4870 X2 is atleast 30% faster , than the GTX280 , especially at high resolutions . So definitely get that .
The price difference between distributers usually comes from custom cooling , or slight differences in the card itself , and the overclocking potential of the cards , atleast as far as I know .

[Lucky Luke]

Cool ! Ok, Gainin' more confidence here, Radiator. However, how do you explain the price similarity between 4870X2 and the 280 GTX? They are priced exactly same here while one is single core and the other is dual core. Is this some kind of ATI pricing strategy against Nvidia? Thanks. :)

[aliquidparadigm]

The reason they are similarly priced is entirely due to the materials.

Obviously, I don't know the exact numbers, I just know generalities here, but:

The GDDR3 on the GTX 280 is ridiculously cheaper than the GDDR5. However, the memory interface is significantly more expensive. Is the price difference there negligible? Probably not, since ATI figured they could keep prices lower going back to 256-bit interface using GDDR5, rather than keeping the 512-bit with GDDR3 (or 4 for the marketing purposes, even though the latencies sucked). So, I imagine 256+GDDR5 is marginally cheaper than 512+GDDR3.

The die itself, however, that's where you start to save the real money. Each RV770 die is 256 mm², whereas the GT200 die is 576 mm². What's this mean? You can literally make two RV770 dies (512 mm²)(the 4870 x2) using less of the wafer than you can for one GT200 die. This, of course, is only for the die itself. So, obviously, one 4870 x2, is a wash with the GTX 280.

The difference in transistor count is similar. The RV770 has 956m transistors, whereas the GT200 has 1.4b. So the 4870 x2 has 1.9b transistors on it, which is a moderate increase over the GT200. Certainly not enough to counter the 2x difference in the actual die itself, though.

It's all about materials, man.

...well, that, and the fact that nVidia gouges prices like a motherfuck anyway. The fact that they launched the GTX 280 at $650 and dropped it down to $400 a month later when it was being creamed is a better indicator of than than any accusations I can make. (c:

ATI's product is superior, and it's priced appropriately based on its CTM. If you find somewhere that it selling the GTX 280 for the same price as the 4870 x2, you should jump on the 4870x2; it is anywhere between 5% worse to 35% better than the GTX 280 in everything currently on the market, and is much more future-proof than the 280.

[hdantman]

Hmm, interesting to see the international price points of both cards. Here there is a definite price gap between the two. $384 for the 280 and $569 for the 4870x2 (if you can find it). For the difference in price, the performance gains aren't quite enough to label the 4870x2 a "bargain." 384=x%569 67%, so that 35% better be tangible enough, as the dollar difference certainly will be.

I'm debating the two myself. I think I'll wait around a few months and see where the prices go. nVidia is probably going to further lower the 280 price when the 4870x2 becomes more readily available in stock at e-tailers, but then again ATI might do something similar. Let the price wars begin!

Not like I'm in a hurry. My 8800GTs still rock the house on every game out...

[hdantman]

Hmm, interesting to see the international price points of both cards. Here there is a definite price gap between the two. $384 for the 280 and $569 for the 4870x2 (if you can find it). For the difference in price, the performance gains aren't quite enough to label the 4870x2 a "bargain." 384=x%569 67%, so that 35% better be tangible enough, as the dollar difference certainly will be.

I'm debating the two myself. I think I'll wait around a few months and see where the prices go. nVidia is probably going to further lower the 280 price when the 4870x2 becomes more readily available in stock at e-tailers, but then again ATI might do something similar. Let the price wars begin!

Not like I'm in a hurry. My 8800GTs still rock the house on every game out...

Oh, and to answer your question--yeah, that salesman (like most of them) has his head up his arse. The PCI-e x16 offers more than enough headspace for bandwidth with all existing cards, but that doesn't even enter in here, since he's talking about the interface between the two cards; here, the onboard crossfire, the PCI-e 2.0 bridge chips, and the crossfire sideport block, which combined offer a total of 21.8GB/s-- more than three times the 6.8GB/s provided by the 3870x2, which definitely didn't limit the card in benchmarks or real world scaling. If you want to know more about this, read the following article.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_ati_radeon_4870_x2_performance_review/

[hdantman]

I hate it when I post twice...stupid editing...posts...argh.

[Radiator]

The GTX280 is selling at 384 USD now ?
Selling it at under 500 USD is selling it without a profit , because , as far as I know , making one of those cards costs quite a bit .

[Headfoot]

4870X2 is faster, bottom line. If its the same price in your area then by all means get that.

[hdantman]

Yup. After shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133228

And yes, if they cost the same, and you are buying today and simply cannot wait for the price drop (in a few weeks), the 4870 x2 is a better deal if they cost the same price. I cannot see how on earth they would, but that's the mystery of international price gaps. Oh, right--you should consider whether or not you are going to run SLI/xFire and what your mobo supports.

[Lucky Luke]

Ok,thnx guys for yr words of advice.Yeah,I'm also surprised that the 4870 X2 is retailed at the same price here in Singapore.I'd get tat soon.Abt my mobo,its model is an ASUS P5GC... something. I couldn't rmember e extnsion & definitely no plan 4 xfire.

[Radiator]

Yup. After shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133228

And yes, if they cost the same, and you are buying today and simply cannot wait for the price drop (in a few weeks), the 4870 x2 is a better deal if they cost the same price. I cannot see how on earth they would, but that's the mystery of international price gaps. Oh, right--you should consider whether or not you are going to run SLI/xFire and what your mobo supports.
The original price of the GTX280 here in local shops was 750 USD , and that's the current price of the HD 4870 X2 and the GTX280 costs 650 USD now .
Ofcourse , the HD 4850 costs slightly above 200 USD , and the HD 4870 costs 350 USD , while the GTX260 is 430-450 USD .
The recommended prices only apply for internet shops , I suppose .