agp cards

[daveg]

hi all,

really great site ive used it in the past for card comparison and stuff. but im in a bit of a situation where i need someone elses opinion. recently i sold my 512 his x1650 for reasons. so i was using an old 9800pro. but that died! so now im on a mx400! (oldschool :D)

so im looking to upgrade to something decentish but prices have changed since my last purchase.

i've considered the x1650 again which i can get for 70 bucks off ebay. at the other end is a sapphire 512 2600xt for 150. im just wondering if anyone has an opinion on which is better and whether its really worth me spending an extra 80 bucks.

if the differences are minimal then i may as well take the cheap option until i upgrade computer. unless theres a plan c? im in australia so agp stuff is still pretty pricey. if you know of any other cards nearby i might check em out though!

thannks!

[Radiator]

Get a X1950 Pro...
What CPU and how much RAM do you have ? And how fast is the RAM ?
If you have under 1.5 GB of RAM , get some more RAM aswell .
As for the CPU , if your CPU is slower than a 2.8 Ghz Pentium 4 , then it'll be a bottleneck .

[daveg]

3ghz cpu with 2gig ram.

x1950s are out of my price range. they're something like 200+

the cards im considering are the x1650, 2600pro and 2600xt.

its probably obvious to go for the 2600xt but i was just wondering if there is an improvement (over the 2600pro) whether its worth it.

[Radiator]

Yep , it sure as hell is faster , than the HD 2600 Pro .
But... I'd suggest the X1950 Pro... even with the extra cost .
I've heard nothing but bad news from the AGP HD 2600 card's driver support and life expectancy .
But do as you wish .

[daveg]

okay well thanks for your help so far.

im still considering my options.

what if i add the 7600gt to the mix? i can get one for about 125. i dont need the flashy dx10 and hd stuff the 2600xt has, so from an fps perspective (im looking to play cod4, tf2, bf2, rfactor) which of these mentioned so far would give me a decent frame rate? im obviously willing to sacrafice some graphics for performance.

so thats the x1650, 7600gt and 2600xt.

thanks!

[Radiator]

The HD 2600 XT is by far the fastest card of the bunch... just don't use AA in games , and you'll be fine .

[Rob]

Why not just get HD3850...The prices have come down a lot ...And it's the best card for AGP

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+1069609639+106792462&name=Radeon+HD+3000+series

[wyz135]

squeeze out a additional 50 bucks and get the HD3850 AGP, trust me, it kicks ass.

[Radiator]

squeeze out a additional 50 bucks and get the HD3859 AGP, trust me, it kicks ass.

HD 3850 = hugely bottlenecked by a Pentium 4 3 Ghz , so it's a huge waste of money .

[Rob]

HD 3850 = hugely bottlenecked by a Pentium 4 3 Ghz , so it's a huge waste of money .
I got to disagree with that . Sure it might bottleneck if you want to play games at really high resolution With everything turned on Max..But I've got no problems playing games like Crysis & TF2 ...@ 1280 x1024..With everything on high settings Except for AA Which I keep disabled ..And it's enjoyable for me to play .

[Radiator]

Lower resolutions = bigger bottlenecks .
A Pentium 4 3 Ghz CPU will be a huge bottleneck for a HD 3850 .

[Rob]

I don't know how you figure running lower resolution We'll give you more bottleneck ...When you run lower resolution you get more FPS....And when you turn up your resolution Your fps go down not up....So when your frames go down thats more stress on your cpu & gpu ..I would think.

[hdantman]

Rob,

Take a look at this thread--it should put CPU/GPU bottlenecks in a better perspective. Radiator knows what he's talking about.


http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/192398-dr-bottlenecks-how-i-learned-stop.html

[Rob]

Rob,

Take a look at this thread--it should put CPU/GPU bottlenecks in a better perspective. Radiator knows what he's talking about.


http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/192398-dr-bottlenecks-how-i-learned-stop.html Very good read ...But all I can say is for me upgrading to an HD3850 Was a very good upgrade from my 9800xt..like I said before I can play CRYSIS With everything on high settings looks amazingly good. And I get an average 22 fps.Which for me is good enough to play .Mainly because I refuse to play any game on low or Medium settings .

[aliquidparadigm]

That's moderately accurate. The main exception to that rule is multi-card systems. My retired AMD Phenom system was crippling my equally retired 3870 Crossfire setup; same video cards and RAM with an e8400 and my performance literally doubles: that surely isn't anything else but the CPU.

Anyway, daveg, you should highly consider the AGP 3850: price/performance will literally be double/quadruple, and that's always known as a good deal. Consider that, given your current practices, you won't need to bother upgrading again for a good 6 years.

[Radiator]

That still will be a big bottleneck ...

[aliquidparadigm]

Well, not really, no. Sure, it'll have an effect, but graphics intensive games that would normally just kill his current system will fly with that card; CPU intensive games are going to tank no matter what card he buys.

[Radiator]

That CPU will hold that card back in nearly any game . The FPS would be tons higher with a better CPU .

[aliquidparadigm]

I suppose I should clarify; I'm not debating whether it will bottleneck it or not, just whether or not the bottleneck is relevant. Sure, running HL2 at 1024x768 it'll bottleneck at some absurd FPS around 150-300, but it's going to be irrelevant at that point. The only way he's going to have to worry about the CPU being a relevant bottleneck is if he runs a high(er) resolution and is playing games that are already really graphically intensive.

Essentially, even on an old set-up like Rob's, he'll still be able to get by in most games because the FPS will be playable at more than reasonable settings. The performance with a 3850 and p4 won't be as good as it *could* be with a C2D, but it'll be far away from being unbearable (for someone still clining on to AGP and a P4, anyway), and will certainly be a massively better value than the 2600XT at a whopping $20-30 more.

I should really bust out my old 1.6GHz semp0rn 2800 and run some benchies to demonstrate this using my 4870. (c:

[Radiator]

Yeah , but in the same games , he'll get virtually the same FPS (well higher , but not by a big enough difference) with an inferior card (X1950 Pro) , due to the CPU bottleneck , hence no real point in getting the HD 3850 AGP with that CPU .

[hdantman]

Yeah,

I see both Paradigm's/Radiator's points, but I'll have to side with Radiator on personal preference.

I can't justify spending more than absolutely necessary to keep an aging AGP system limping along. Why buy a card that isn't going to go with you into the next system you build/buy, if it exceeds the performance capabilities of the rest of the system?

Go for the best bang/buck. In my silly opinion.

[Ktenns]

You guys seem really helpful, so I'll ask my question too.
I've got an old system that has served me well for a few years. I've upgraded the CPU, RAM, HDD and even the case, but I'm wondering if it's worth pushing the button on a video upgrade.
Here's my specs:

Sempron 3000+
2GB DDR (Dual Channel if it matters)
Seagate 320GB 16MB ATA100
16X DVDRW
XP Home SP3
Current Video: AIW 9800 Pro 128MB

Games are mostly AOK, Stronghold2, KOTOR2, Jedi Academy...

Would it be worth looking at a 7600GS, X1650Pro, HD2600XT...or would I be better off buying a cooler (it's just got a largee passive heatsink right now because my old fan died...actually I'm not sure it's getting the cooling job done) and maybe OC'ing a little bit? Not sure how I actually go about that anyway...I'm such a GPU nOOb!!!

Help!

[Radiator]

You upgraded TO a 3000+ Sempron ?

I'd suggest a X1950 Pro , but that CPU will probably be a big bottleneck . The HD 2600 XT is slower and the AGP versions of those cards have big issues...

[hdantman]

Ktenns,

I don't really think it's worth it. It's too bad you don't live around here. I have a 3500+ Athlon I could just give you sitting in a dead mobo. That 3000+ murders any hope you have of getting better performance out of your system. Trust me--I had a 2600+ paired with similar specs, with a 6600 GT 128MB and the CPU was a bottleneck when overclocked to 3000+ specs. That card is very similar to your card in specs--take a gander at the comparison page.

If you're happy with performance, leave be until you have the dinero for a new machine. If not--try an OC. Don't put another penny into it though--too dated, and you won't see any gains worth the price of additional cooling, unless you have some old fans sitting around you can rig--that's what I did.

Had to talk the wife into the upgrade I've finally got--it paid off in the end!

[Headfoot]

7600 GT AGP, 3650 AGP and 3850 AGP are your best bets.