Ati R700

[Syndicator]

According to Fudzilla (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6784&Itemid=34), ATI's much awaited R700 videocard(s) will launch around Computex 2008 which starts at June 3, 2008. If the speculated specs here (http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7356.html) are right then it's going to be one hell of a battle between ATI and NVIDIA.

I've noticed that the ATI section is sort of dead so I decided to create this topic. It's an interesting one at that. Believe it or not but I'm eager to see what the R700 and GT200 has in store.

SOURCE: 1 (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6784&Itemid=34)/2 (http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7356.html)

[wyz135]

R700..... interesting, rumours said they are going to stuff 4 cores on a single card....

[Radiator]

3rd of July ? If all goes well , I'll be in Amsterdam then... and being either drunk off my ass or stoned .
Anyway , I sincerely hope they have made major improvements on their superscalar architecture's efficiency , because if they haven't , then the GT200 will probably be the death of ATi .

[wyz135]

3rd of July ? If all goes well , I'll be in Amsterdam then... and being either drunk off my ass or stoned .
Anyway , I sincerely hope they have made major improvements on their superscalar architecture's efficiency , because if they haven't , then the GT200 will probably be the death of ATi .

I heard they are going to have a HD48xx series with 480 Shader Processors. If they are really going to stuff 4 cores onto a single board, which means they are going to have 1920 Shader Processors on a single PCI-Express Card?!? That's just insane. I think ATi had learnt their lesson and probably stop using Superscalar MADD X5

[Radiator]

They are going to stick two cores , not 4 . Sticking 4 cores on one PCB is still several generations away... even because of the die size , not to mention the heat or power consumption .

[wyz135]

If ATi still stick to the inefficient SuperScalar MADD X5 architecture...... I had enough of ATi, I'm supporting nvidia. Well, at least the HD38xx series was a great improvement

[Radiator]

If ATi still stick to the inefficient SuperScalar MADD X5 architecture...... I had enough of ATi, I'm supporting nvidia. Well, at least the HD38xx series was a great improvement

They most certainly are sticking to the SuperScalar architecture . The real question is , can they make it more efficient this time (or just clock it INSANELY high , as far as I can remember , they went to 45nm even... ) . I doubt they are going to make the same mistake twice , but then again , who knows .

[Sunny]

I think they are just going to go with the insanely high clocks. In an article it says the prototype of the RV770 should be there best yet. The prototype of the 4870 has a core clock of 1.05 Ghz that is insane and mentions that the 4850 is gonna be around 800+ core clock. If ATI can get there stuff together they might do pretty good with these cards.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37025/135/

Hopefully this article is right though.

[wyz135]

I think they are just going to go with the insanely high clocks. In an article it says the prototype of the RV770 should be there best yet. The prototype of the 4870 has a core clock of 1.05 Ghz that is insane and mentions that the 4850 is gonna be around 800+ core clock. If ATI can get there stuff together they might do pretty good with these cards.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37025/135/

Hopefully this article is right though.

55nm core you can already OC the thing like hell. 45nm.....hmm, intel's 45nm core has already shown great performance compared to the 65nm ones. So if they really use it in the RV770, I bet the thing can be OCed to any speed you like and can deliver great performance. And it would be so much better if ATi cards have seperate Core clock and Shader clock instead of locking their shader operations to the core clock. So it can be more flexible when come to overclocking, people can choose to go for Shader or Texture horsepower.....

Anyway any news of nvidia's next generation of graphic card?? And what's nvidia new name for their next generation, they have already reach the 9 series, they can't use 10 series like GeForce 10600 GT(doesn't sound really nice)..... or are they going to follow ATi's way, having a additional letter in front like the X and HD series??

[Radiator]

If ATi's card's core clock wasn't locked to the shader , then the core would be at about 700 Mhz... which will leave the texture and pixel fill rate way too low .

1.05 Ghz at STOCK ? That's fucking INSANE! I wonder if it'll perform accordingly .

[wyz135]

If ATi's card's core clock wasn't locked to the shader , then the core would be at about 700 Mhz... which will leave the texture and pixel fill rate way too low .

1.05 Ghz at STOCK ? That's fucking INSANE! I wonder if it'll perform accordingly .

55nm ATi's card is already showing outrageous results. 1.05GHz should be no problem for the 45nm, you can even overclock it further if you want to

[Radiator]

The only 55nm card that's clocked very high is the HD 3870 X2 which is at 900+ core , right ?
Still , 1.05 Ghz is about 105 Mhz higher than the HD 3870 X2 .
Well the riddiculous clock speeds will surely make a difference , but I'm sure they'll make the architecture a bit more efficient ... atleast I hope so , because if not , they don't really stand a chance , now do they ?

[Sunny]

Here is another link about the rv770.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ati-radeon-4800,5223.html

I would assume that new architecture would provide improvements but with a clock that high it would be good regardless. The 3870X2 seemed to hit Nvidia a bit eventhough just for a little while. I can't wait to see what a 4870 is gonna perform like. But imagine a 4870X2. hmmmm....

THe link shows some differences between the first article I just don't know which one is right?

[Radiator]

Hmm... think what two HD 4870 X2's can do... yum .
Anyways , apparently the shaders are no longer locked to the core... woot .
If I ever get a new PC , I'm gonna get a HD 4870 in it , if it's as good as its cracked up to be ( or anywhere near that ) .

[wyz135]

GOOD NEWS!!! ATi is going to release it earlier, May instead of June..... Look like I'm considering getting the HD4850 to replace my asshole HD2600XT......sweet:)

Anyway......any news on the upcoming nvidia card???

[Radiator]

The GT200 will undoubtably be a monster .

IF I graduate my class without failing anything ( it's highly unlikely that I wont fail anything ) , I MIGHT get money for a new PC... so , I suppose my new PC will have a HD 4870 in it .

[Headfoot]

Hey wyz135, if you do plan on picking up a 4850 in the future, your CPU will probably start to slow you down. Luckily the CPU you have overclocks really really well, and you should be able to get some great performance out of it.
Check out this article here, it explains really thoroughly how to do it for your CPU. It uses a Gigabyte brand mobo, but they should be similar enough. :D
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245679-29-guide-overclocking-ds3l

[wyz135]

Hey wyz135, if you do plan on picking up a 4850 in the future, your CPU will probably start to slow you down. Luckily the CPU you have overclocks really really well, and you should be able to get some great performance out of it.
Check out this article here, it explains really thoroughly how to do it for your CPU. It uses a Gigabyte brand mobo, but they should be similar enough. :D
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245679-29-guide-overclocking-ds3l

Thanks!!!:) But anyway do you all think it's better to get a single HD4850 or Dual HD3850s??? What is the software they use to test for their maximum CPU temperature???

[Radiator]

Thanks!!!:) But anyway do you all think it's better to get a single HD4850 or Dual HD3850s??? What is the software they use to test for their maximum CPU temperature???

I'd get the HD 4850 , because a number of games have issues with CF . Then again , we don't know what the HD 4850 performs like... if it's not better than a HD 3850 by a big margin , get the dual HD 3850's .

[-RK]

Superscalar MADDx5 is a good idea, just innefficient. If they could make it efficient it would blow standard NV architecture out of the water.

5 ops/clock is an excellent idea.

[Radiator]

Superscalar MADDx5 is a good idea, just innefficient. If they could make it efficient it would blow standard NV architecture out of the water.

5 ops/clock is an excellent idea.

Indeed... but it's nearly impossible to get it as efficient as nVidia's scalar architecture , which by design is much simpler , than the superscalar .
If it were as efficient as nVidia's scalar architecture , even the HD 2900 XT would be eating Crysis at maximum settings ... but it's not .

[-RK]

aye aye.

like an itanium... only better... IF THE DAMN ARCHITECTURE WASN'T SO DAMN INNEFFICIENT!!!

oh well, maybe the r700 series' architecture will correct some problems. The HD3xxx series fixed a lot of the efficiency problems of the 2xxx series.

[Radiator]

The HD2900 to HD 3800 didn't make it THAT much more efficient , though .
The main problem is the fact that the architecture needs drivers that cannot be made at this point .

[-RK]

not THAT much more efficient???

Look at power consumption, heat, manufacturing cost, and AA performance! The difference is pretty damn big man.

[Sunny]

Yeah I have to 2nd that all those things RK mentioned changed from the HD2 series. There was quite a bit of changes. Yeah think about how much the 2900 XT was.

[Radiator]

not THAT much more efficient???

Look at power consumption, heat, manufacturing cost, and AA performance! The difference is pretty damn big man.

I was talking purely about performance , not power consumption , heat and manufacturing costs .

[-RK]

wellll... performance got quite a nice boost as well. AA was the main performance limit on the 2900. AA kicked the hell out of the thing, but the 38x0s do just fine with it.

They also do significantly better in most benchmarks without AA, so...

I will admit that ATI could have done some things better (!LOCKED IS CLOCK SHADER CLOCK IS LOCKED!) but they improved the efficiency by quite a large margin.

I'm hoping that they can do it again for the 4xxx series.

[Radiator]

Well , yeah AA sure as hell did get a big boost . I normally don't include AA performance , when I'm talking about performance , though . Probably , because I generally don't use AA , and don't see the point in using it if you can use your monitor's native resolution .

Anyway , yeah overall the HD 38*0's were a nice improvement , but non-AA performance didn't increase by THAT much .

[Sunny]

Oh so according to this link it looks like the cards are going to be delayed a bit. The link makes the 4870 sound really promising but I guess we will have to see when it actually comes out. A 4870 to be as strong as a 3870X2 ooohh crap. I wonder about the 4870X2!!! :confused:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ati-radeon-4800,5375.html

[-RK]

That still looks like it wouldn't be able to compete with the standard NV architecture with a max of 240SPs...

[Sunny]

I know, by what they are saying it seems like it would be powerful. But ATI cards usually have high specs yet there specs don't do anything for them in performance. I can't wait for that GT200 it really seems like its gonna be powerful and seeing how good high end nvidia cards are in games I can't wait.

[-RK]

I know, by what they are saying it seems like it would be powerful. But ATI cards usually have high specs yet there specs don't do anything for them in performance.


Don't tell me you don't remember the X1950XT and XTX??? Those were absolute monsters!

[sigmapsicharlie]

I believe AMD/ATI is more concerned with the price war at hand, than the performance. They always are half the price of Nvidia and in my opinion have great image quality and decent FPS with Crysis (with 3870).

People that are concerned with only frames per second and spend crazy amounts of money on a computer that their going to upgrade in 6 months, really know nothing about AMD's/ATI's strategy, they want to sell to everyone, not just hardcore gamers.

You guys talk about all this technical crap, when that means nothing to the people that AMD is really targeting. I build computers everyday for single moms and high school kids and people who have never owned a computer before, these are the people that get "Spider Systems" because it sounds cool or because it it just cheaper.

I know you guys like to talk how fast this or that is, but it really doesn't matter.

ATI/AMD make a good product with good performance for a great price and that is it.

If you want crazy "STAR WARS NERD" performance go spend 2 grand on an NVIDIA/Intel machine.

[sigmapsicharlie]

oh and by the way the new 4800 series is gonna be awesome, whether they improve efficiency or not. And the GT200 NVidia stuff is gonna be expensive. I'm planning on getting 2 4870X2's for the price of 1 Nvidia GT200 card.

I'm sorry, but my wallet, no matter how deep it is, still calls the shots.

I'm gonna laugh my A$$ off playing Crysis for half the price.

[wyz135]

I believe AMD/ATI is more concerned with the price war at hand, than the performance. They always are half the price of Nvidia and in my opinion have great image quality and decent FPS with Crysis (with 3870).

People that are concerned with only frames per second and spend crazy amounts of money on a computer that their going to upgrade in 6 months, really know nothing about AMD's/ATI's strategy, they want to sell to everyone, not just hardcore gamers.

You guys talk about all this technical crap, when that means nothing to the people that AMD is really targeting. I build computers everyday for single moms and high school kids and people who have never owned a computer before, these are the people that get "Spider Systems" because it sounds cool or because it it just cheaper.

I know you guys like to talk how fast this or that is, but it really doesn't matter.

ATI/AMD make a good product with good performance for a great price and that is it.

If you want crazy "STAR WARS NERD" performance go spend 2 grand on an NVIDIA/Intel machine.

oh and by the way the new 4800 series is gonna be awesome, whether they improve efficiency or not. And the GT200 NVidia stuff is gonna be expensive. I'm planning on getting 2 4870X2's for the price of 1 Nvidia GT200 card.

I'm sorry, but my wallet, no matter how deep it is, still calls the shots.

I'm gonna laugh my A$$ off playing Crysis for half the price.

Glad someone know something positive about ATi, ATi will always minimise the cost of their cards and have maximum performance and quality

[Radiator]

oh and by the way the new 4800 series is gonna be awesome, whether they improve efficiency or not. And the GT200 NVidia stuff is gonna be expensive. I'm planning on getting 2 4870X2's for the price of 1 Nvidia GT200 card.

I'm sorry, but my wallet, no matter how deep it is, still calls the shots.

I'm gonna laugh my A$$ off playing Crysis for half the price.

So... the GT200 is going to cost 1000 USD ? If that's true then nVidia dug it's own grave... but i highly doubt it'll cost that much .

[Sunny]

Don't tell me you don't remember the X1950XT and XTX??? Those were absolute monsters!

OH yeah I still have a X1900 XTX and it is pretty good. Too bad its soo loud and gets really hot though. But there new cards have not jumped significantly higher then previous cards that they had I mean performance wise.

[Sunny]

People that are concerned with only frames per second and spend crazy amounts of money on a computer that their going to upgrade in 6 months, really know nothing about AMD's/ATI's strategy, they want to sell to everyone, not just hardcore gamers.

You guys talk about all this technical crap, when that means nothing to the people that AMD is really targeting. I build computers everyday for single moms and high school kids and people who have never owned a computer before, these are the people that get "Spider Systems" because it sounds cool or because it it just cheaper.

I know you guys like to talk how fast this or that is, but it really doesn't matter.

ATI/AMD make a good product with good performance for a great price and that is it.

If you want crazy "STAR WARS NERD" performance go spend 2 grand on an NVIDIA/Intel machine.

You mention that people who spend crazy amounts of money and upgrade in six months don't know anything about AMD/ATI strategy. Yet who do you think they buy from again when they upgrade in 6 months? Is it ATI? These are people who want the best performance.

You say they want to sell to everyone not just hardcore gamers but Nvidia is still dominating the GPU market regardless of there sell to everyone strategy. Its not like Nvidia doesn't have low end cards either and they still dominate regardless.

Technical crap means nothing to people who AMD is targeting. Yet these are the same people who don't know a lot about PC's. So are these the people who upgrade often since they don't know about pc's? Probably not. So if they don't upgrade often who does that effect?

How fast something is doesn't matter? What do you mean? If it doesn't matter then people would just buy the cheapest cards but that is not the case. People who upgrade often and want the best performance are the reason why Nvidia is soo successful. Regardless of there price they want performance and believe me they still sell. So how fast something is doesn't matter to single moms or kids. But they are definately not a big part of PC market.

"If you want crazy "STAR WARS NERD" performance go spend 2 grand on an NVIDIA/Intel machine"
Go check out Dell, Alienware and other big Gaming PC distributors there PC's can run up to 5 and 6 grand yet there pc's still sell like hotcakes. So people are definately buyin regardless of price performance strategy. Maybe you aren't but dang lots of people are and they expect performance.

Hopefully this helps.

[Radiator]

Well , for 2 grand you could probably build a PC as powerful as those from Dell or Alienware , gaming-wise .

[Sunny]

Yeah I was just making a statement as he makes it seem that lots of people don't buy expensive PC's or components when they do it all the time. I used to be one of them. :D

[-RK]

I believe AMD/ATI is more concerned with the price war at hand, than the performance. They always are half the price of Nvidia and in my opinion have great image quality and decent FPS with Crysis (with 3870).

People that are concerned with only frames per second and spend crazy amounts of money on a computer that their going to upgrade in 6 months, really know nothing about AMD's/ATI's strategy, they want to sell to everyone, not just hardcore gamers.

You guys talk about all this technical crap, when that means nothing to the people that AMD is really targeting. I build computers everyday for single moms and high school kids and people who have never owned a computer before, these are the people that get "Spider Systems" because it sounds cool or because it it just cheaper.

I know you guys like to talk how fast this or that is, but it really doesn't matter.

ATI/AMD make a good product with good performance for a great price and that is it.

If you want crazy "STAR WARS NERD" performance go spend 2 grand on an NVIDIA/Intel machine.



I hate fanboyism.

[wyz135]

Well , for 2 grand you could probably build a PC as powerful as those from Dell or Alienware , gaming-wise .

The thing I hate about manufactured computer is that they banned overclocking. I rather spent the 5 thousand dollars to build my own PC.

[-RK]

Banned overclocking? What? how... what are you talking about wyz?

I do agree that the manufacturers suck horribly, but that's because I can build a system that performs better with less useless crap preinstalled on the OS for the same price usually.

[wyz135]

Banned overclocking? What? how... what are you talking about wyz?

I do agree that the manufacturers suck horribly, but that's because I can build a system that performs better with less useless crap preinstalled on the OS for the same price usually.

Manufactured computer by Acer, Dell etc. usually banned overclocking, their bios had been modified or you can say the overclocking feature had been removed. Even though you can download softwares to overclocking through the OS, but it's not safe because all overclocking support motherboard will automatic shut down when there is some problems due to overclocking and there will be a error message like "Overclocking Failure". Motherboard from the manufacturers usually have all this features removed and won't even know there's a problem after you overclock and cause more damage to the processor. Or you can say manufacturer's computer have good memory, graphic card, HDD but a crappy motherboard.

[-RK]

Dell uses their own motherboards a lot of the time, and it's cheaper to have minimal capabilities. Most of their customers aren't techies so it usually doesn't matter to them.

Yea, the big manufacturers suck. Unless you're willing to shell out 5 grand for a system you could build for 2.


edit: holyshit... radiator already said it!

[Sunny]

Wyz,

Dell has come a long way though. If you look at there pc's now. They do provide overclocking options now whether you do it yourself or they do it predone from the factory. After many have complained about the overclocking options in the bios. So they are on the right path. They also used to have custom BTX boards 590i and 680i. They are now using Custom ATX boards with the ability to do both Crossfire and SLI which is pretty tight. So they are improving on Dell's side but I can't say the same about the rest.

[-RK]

Like said though, those systems will cost you around double what it would cost to build it yourself.

[Sunny]

Oh yeah I know what you mean.

[Radiator]

Most companies don't include overclocking in their warranties... which sucks , but still makes sense ... otherwise some people would be frying 8800 Ultras daily to finally reach a high clock speed while remaining stable . :P

[Sunny]

Yeah not only void warranties buy the cost of replacing so many products for lots of people would suck and companies would probably go down hill. Its just better to buy pre-overclocked and have a warranty on the overclock that the manufacturer did.

[Radiator]

Or do like I do... don't overclock at all :P .

[Sunny]

Oh man radiator no overclocking what so ever? You just run everything stock? Ever since I found out how to overclock and how much it improves when you overclock your CPU.:p I think its great. :D

Have you ever tried it?

[Radiator]

Oh man radiator no overclocking what so ever? You just run everything stock? Ever since I found out how to overclock and how much it improves when you overclock your CPU.:p I think its great. :D

Have you ever tried it?

Well , since I have a 300W PSU , then there's not much room for OCing... and an X1600 Pro doesn't clock very well . Unlike most of the people here , I don't have an uber PC with a modern video card .

However I have tried... it's pathetic... at 520 core and 415 memory ( 830 DDR ) I already start getting (a bit too much, but not visible to the eye) artifacting on the ATi tray tools artifact test thing .

Edit ( edited this post so I wouldn't make a double post ) .

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7834.html
Cheap HD 4850's ? That's bloody great news .
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7845.html
Even better news .
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7841.html
800 shader processors , 1.2 TFLOPS ... I'm gonna get me one of those if I ever get the chance of getting a new PC (that's IF it's the best card for the price) .

[Headfoot]

The new Radeons are looking really strong, which is great for us consumers. If scaling on Crossfire improves (which it usually does each generation) then the new Radeons are going to be extremely competitive. This may help pull AMD up and back on a stride, or at least we can hope.

I dunno what AMD is going to do about Nehalem though.:eek:

[wyz135]

I'm gonna get me one of those if I ever get the chance of getting a new PC (that's IF it's the best card for the price) .

er..... you said the same thing before the Radeon HD3800 series was released.....

[Radiator]

Yep... I did so... however , I haven't had the money to get a new PC . In the fall , however , I actually have a real chance of getting a new PC .
Nehalem is going to eat AMD's CPUs alive , I suppose .

And uhm... Crossfire itself scales better than SLi... just most games are under the TWIMTBP logo , and hence more optimized for nVidia's cards .

[wyz135]

Yep... I did so... however , I haven't had the money to get a new PC . In the fall , however , I actually have a real chance of getting a new PC .
Nehalem is going to eat AMD's CPUs alive , I suppose .

And uhm... Crossfire itself scales better than SLi... just most games are under the TWIMTBP logo , and hence more optimized for nVidia's cards .

Good luck in your new gaming rig:)