Guys i need a new agp videocard.

[David]

I need a new agp videocard for my brothers computer and i need to know something where the hell can i find an x1650xt and x1950pro agp?
And how much would they cost?

[Track]

Long gone.

Sorry. :(

[David]

What do ya mean? I cant find em anywhere did they stop making them?

[Track]

What do ya mean? I cant find em anywhere did they stop making them?

Of course. They only made a little bit of them and now they are gone. Much like the X1900 card, but they made a lot of those.

Your only chance now is to go store to store of ur local PC hardware shops. Continue to search the Internet meanwhile.. maybe u can find one.

[aliquidparadigm]

Amazon sure has an interesting pair of products listed on their site, though:

http://www.amazon.com/s/103-3633924-7511065?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link%5Fcode=qs&field-keywords=X1950PRO%20AGP&sourceid=Mozilla-search

Of course, being Amazon, that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot.

[Track]

Amazon sure has an interesting pair of products listed on their site, though:

http://www.amazon.com/s/103-3633924-7511065?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link%5Fcode=qs&field-keywords=X1950PRO%20AGP&sourceid=Mozilla-search

Of course, being Amazon, that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot.

They are not in stock, and since they arent making anymore there is no way they ever will be.

And welcome to the site! ;)

[David]

Welcome aliquidparadigm And thx anyway guys i guess i just have to get an x1600agp (Since my bro still thinks radeons are the best)

[Track]

Welcome aliquidparadigm And thx anyway guys i guess i just have to get an x1600agp (Since my bro still thinks radeons are the best)

There was a rumor that this site would have more X1950Pros at the end of December and they do claim that the ETA is 12/22. Not to mention their stock says >10.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22044&vpn=sapphire1950&manufacture=SAPPHIRE

[Mike]

I've seen AGP x1950s just sitting on store shelves...but for $299...

[David]

I've seen AGP x1950s just sitting on store shelves...but for $299...
SHIT! I mean come on why cant we have affordable agp cards? If i was in charge of either nvidia or ati(amd) I'd make sure That agp and pci-e cards are equivantly priced! I mean WTF seriously! Just because i have an agp only system does'nt mean i am less of a consumer! I want a 199$ x1950pro agp like their pci-e counterparts! I'm sorry for ranting but (Excuse me for the language in advance) FOR FUCKS SAKE! STOP MARKING UP THE FUCKEN PRICES! Atleast half the market is still in agp and they want good gpu's not these shitty 7800gs's that are way overpriced! I want a 150$ 7600gt agp(which if you look at the card stats side by side it kills the 7800gs) not a 200$ one! God dang it! Who agrees with me that these stupid price markups for agp have to stop? It's not making anyone move to pci-e any sooner no infant its making the people that still have agp go out and buy the fx5200's and 9550's on bestbuy's shelves since those are the only cards that they can afford and they get pissed saying why does it perform so bad? Its the newest technology? Is'nt it? Then why is it making me lag in WoW? And why cant i play Fear at all? It's making people feel ripped off and pissed! If i had my own Gpu company i swear to God or whatever you believe in!(Even if you dont believe in anything at all) That i would make agp and pci-e cards priced equivantly! Getting the same performance for the same price if its either agp or pci-e and if any retailer or e-tailer jacks up the price they pay! Whew sorry for the long post but i'm still so mad at bestbuy and nvidia and ati(amd) I pray to God that one day i can own my own gpu company and make great gpu's for people on all interfaces whether it be agp, pci-e, or some other future interface i swear to God that i will make cards for all and available at fair prices.

[MrWizard6600]

I've seen AGP x1950s just sitting on store shelves...but for $299...

thats why we dont buy from shelves. we buy from newegg, NCIX, and, if your 1337 enough, your very own suppliers.

[David]

and, if your 1337 enough, your very own suppliers.
Like you Mr.Anderson? I mean MrWizard.(Matrix flashback sorry)

[Track]

No offense, but.. u think u have it bad?

AGP cards here cost more than PCIe cards just the same, but here the price is doubled. A 7800 GS AGP cost 600$ in July and now its abt 400$. Of course u cant find it anymore, so it dosent matter.

Over 60% of ppl still have AGP and developing a card for PCIe and then for AGP is twice as much work because its not just a port. PCIe is the future and if nVidia and ATI stand to make a profit, then they have to have ppl with PCIe motherboards, because every high-end card has to at least start with PCIe and some cant even be made into AGP cards later on.

People who do not want PCIe are holding back the entire industry. If 60% of ppl had PCIe, the companies would be able to sell the 8800 GTX at 300$ and make the same profit.. not that they would have, but still.

But u have an 8800 GTS, what are u complaining abt?

[aliquidparadigm]

People who do not want PCIe are holding back the entire industry. If 60% of ppl had PCIe, the companies would be able to sell the 8800 GTX at 300$ and make the same profit.. not that they would have, but still.This is insanely true. It's been my experience, however, that the majority of the people who still want AGP cards literally only people who don't know how to build a computer, and don't feel like dropping another $800+ on a trashy computer from a manufacturer like Dell just to play games on it; these people are more content to drop $400 on an Xbox360 and keep their dinosaur PC.

edit: And then comes the question: Let's say the market were 60+% PCIe and the companies could sell cards at $300, do you seriously think that they would? Look at oil companies and gas prices, or console companies like Microsoft and Sony; companies will charge whatever people will pay, and they have learned that we will pay just about any slightly ridiculous price they throw at us.

[Mike]

No offense, but.. u think u have it bad?

AGP cards here cost more than PCIe cards just the same, but here the price is doubled. A 7800 GS AGP cost 600$ in July and now its abt 400$. Of course u cant find it anymore, so it dosent matter.

Over 60% of ppl still have AGP and developing a card for PCIe and then for AGP is twice as much work because its not just a port. PCIe is the future and if nVidia and ATI stand to make a profit, then they have to have ppl with PCIe motherboards, because every high-end card has to at least start with PCIe and some cant even be made into AGP cards later on.

People who do not want PCIe are holding back the entire industry. If 60% of ppl had PCIe, the companies would be able to sell the 8800 GTX at 300$ and make the same profit.. not that they would have, but still.

But u have an 8800 GTS, what are u complaining abt?

Having to do both PCI-E and AGP at the same time was a problem a year or two ago, but at this point all new development is done for PCI-E only and AGP cards are either old hardware, or bridged using bridge chips.

It doesn't adversely affect the industry that people are still on AGP, it just sucks to be trying to upgrade an AGP system right now because AGP cards cost more to make.

[Mike]

This is insanely true. It's been my experience, however, that the majority of the people who still want AGP cards literally only people who don't know how to build a computer, and don't feel like dropping another $800+ on a trashy computer from a manufacturer like Dell just to play games on it; these people are more content to drop $400 on an Xbox360 and keep their dinosaur PC.

edit: And then comes the question: Let's say the market were 60+% PCIe and the companies could sell cards at $300, do you seriously think that they would? Look at oil companies and gas prices, or console companies like Microsoft and Sony; companies will charge whatever people will pay, and they have learned that we will pay just about any slightly ridiculous price they throw at us.

AGP cards have absolutely no effect on the prices of PCI-E cards!!! Where are you guys getting these ideas from?

Video cards are priced where they make the most money. And that's it. Simple economics.

[David]

People who do not want PCIe are holding back the entire industry. If 60% of ppl had PCIe, the companies would be able to sell the 8800 GTX at 300$ and make the same profit.. not that they would have, but still.

But u have an 8800 GTS, what are u complaining abt?
I'm complaining cause i need a new gpu for my bro's pc and i wanted to get a 7800gt but it costs too damn much. I dont thinkt hat epople who still have agp are holding back the industry i think its the support for old hardware which is, Listen i'd gladly buy a motherboard for socket A if it had jsut one Pci-e slot but noone wants to make it, Same with the P3 and P4 owners i still have a p3 computer which has an agp slot at 4X i would love to buy for it a 7900gs for it because i know it can handle it. But since noone wants to make a Pci-e mobo for old hardware i say screw it you just pissed off alot of people! I know i sound crazy but Who the FUCK! wants to spend 500$ for a whole new computer just to use new graphics technology? When your old pc is enough, My old XP3200 Still kicks ass it just needs new gpu to shine right now it's running an fx5200 I would just love to have it run an X1950pro to get some decent frames in Cod2. Thats all i ask.

[David]

AGP cards have absolutely no effect on the prices of PCI-E cards!!! Where are you guys getting these ideas from?

Video cards are priced where they make the most money. And that's it. Simple economics.
But its not working! It's not driving me and my colleagues to go and buy whole new systems, It's not making us go and get consoles or sell our old mobos and cpu to buy new ones which does make money for the mobo and cpu makers aswell (Hmm? Maybe there is a conspiracy going on here?) Just to get say another 20fps in counter strike. Listen i've seen my old P3 with a gig of sdr ram and an X850xt agp run CS beautifully and i do mean beautifully! Better then an xp2500 with a 7800gs agp(Running at 525mhz core clock) And a gig of DDR ram.
I know it just might be that the athlon is weak but damn! The freaking pc flew! Even at 1.4ghz The P3 Rocked! (Oh god i wish it was still 05 sometimes) I dont care anymore what anyone says i'd be happy just to see a Pci-e Socket A mobo from Amd to run their Ati cards. I'd gladly pay 150-200$ just for the ability to keep my old system just a bit longer.

[aliquidparadigm]

AGP cards have absolutely no effect on the prices of PCI-E cards!!! Where are you guys getting these ideas from?

Video cards are priced where they make the most money. And that's it. Simple economics.It would be consistent with the supply/demand that currently exists; there is quite a high supply of PCIe hardware, but AGP continues to sell because so many people are resistant to upgrading their entire system for a new video card. Both ends of the spectrum are getting screwed by consumers' resistance to upgrade to PCIe; if the uniform standard were PCIe, there wouldn't be any need to produce anything else, which would reduce manufacturing and R&D costs, which in turn would mean they wouldn't be able to sell cards for the outrageous costs they do now. It's more than just inflation causing graphics cards to go from $300 for a brand-new top-of-the-line card in 2003 to almost $700 for the same calibre card in 2007. That's just my $.02, though.

[David]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103024
Need i say more?

[Track]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103024
Need i say more?

What ppl dont see now is tha the X1900GT is much better than the X1950 Pro.

[Mike]

What ppl dont see now is tha the X1900GT is much better than the X1950 Pro.
umm...how do you figure? the x1900gt is clocked slower and it's a lot bigger and hotter since it has an R580 with disabled pipes instead of just an RV570...

[Mike]

It would be consistent with the supply/demand that currently exists; there is quite a high supply of PCIe hardware, but AGP continues to sell because so many people are resistant to upgrading their entire system for a new video card. Both ends of the spectrum are getting screwed by consumers' resistance to upgrade to PCIe; if the uniform standard were PCIe, there wouldn't be any need to produce anything else, which would reduce manufacturing and R&D costs, which in turn would mean they wouldn't be able to sell cards for the outrageous costs they do now. It's more than just inflation causing graphics cards to go from $300 for a brand-new top-of-the-line card in 2003 to almost $700 for the same calibre card in 2007. That's just my $.02, though.
This is complete and utter bullshit. There are no R&D costs associated with AGP cards, they're just bridged PCI-E cards, and the bridge chips were developed years ago. nVidia and ATi both stopped designing separate chips for each interface years ago. AGP cards cost more because nVidia and ATi aren't the ones designing the boards for them, their add-in-board partners have to do it on their own. That, plus the cost of the bridge chip itself, is keeping AGP card prices high.

If AGP were to disappear off the face of the planet tomorrow, PCI-E cards would be at the exact same price...one has nothing to do with the other...

I really, seriously, don't understand where you guys are getting this idea from.

[Track]

umm...how do you figure? the x1900gt is clocked slower and it's a lot bigger and hotter since it has an R580 with disabled pipes instead of just an RV570...

Once X1950 Pro was released ppl stoped looking at the X1900GT as it gradualy decreased in price. There is no performance difference but the X1900GT is 50$ cheaper.

[Track]

This is complete and utter bullshit. There are no R&D costs associated with AGP cards, they're just bridged PCI-E cards, and the bridge chips were developed years ago. nVidia and ATi both stopped designing separate chips for each interface years ago. AGP cards cost more because nVidia and ATi aren't the ones designing the boards for them, their add-in-board partners have to do it on their own. That, plus the cost of the bridge chip itself, is keeping AGP card prices high.

If AGP were to disappear off the face of the planet tomorrow, PCI-E cards would be at the exact same price...one has nothing to do with the other...

I really, seriously, don't understand where you guys are getting this idea from.

The notion that if market share rises, profits rise and then maybe prices could be lowered.. not that they will. If everyone had PCIe, the companies would be selling more new high-end cards.
If bridge chips are so easy and cheap to use, why dont they make AGP versions of every PCIe card?

[Mike]

The notion that if market share rises, profits rise and then maybe prices could be lowered.. not that they will. If everyone had PCIe, the companies would be selling more new high-end cards.
If bridge chips are so easy and cheap to use, why dont they make AGP versions of every PCIe card?

This is simple econonmics. Prices are only lowered for one reason: to increase profits. The only way lowering price can increase profit is if you sell more cards. So, the only reason to lower prices is to increase the number of cards you sell. The point here is that AGP cards and PCI-E cards represent two separate markets. People will buy one or the other because their motherboard only supports one or the other. AGP cards do not compete against PCI-E cards, so they don't have an impact on each-others pricing.

Also, AGP cards make a profit all by themselves. PCI-E card prices are not raised to make up for losses on the AGP side, to make up for the added cost of the bridge chip and the different board the cost of AGP cards is higher, as is plainly obvious by taking a look around Newegg.

So. Since nobody is doing R&D on AGP chips (and they haven't been for about a year) and nobody is losing money on AGP cards, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to believe that the price of PCI-E cards is being affected by AGP cards.

And I never said bridges were cheap and easy to use...they definitely add to the cost of an AGP card...

Look at the trend, there's an AGP x1950pro, there are agp X1600s, X1300s, 7300s, 7600s and the 7800gs...all of them bridged...

Video card manufacturers will bridge a card to AGP when they perceive a demand for such a card, that's why nobody is making an AGP card that costs more than $300, because nobody would buy such a thing.

All this talk about AGP cards causing PCI-E card prices to be higher is dis-information. I don't know how else to say it: you guys are completely wrong.

[Mike]

Once X1950 Pro was released ppl stoped looking at the X1900GT as it gradualy decreased in price. There is no performance difference but the X1900GT is 50$ cheaper.

ah...well yes that's a good point...

[David]

Wow this has really taken off i never guessed that my rant would start such an interesting discussion. Anyway...

Ok guys choose which agp card would be better for me?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161053

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130076

Personally i think the 7600gs would be better but its your call.

[Track]

That's a tough call.. but I think I would still keep the 8800 GTS.

Obviously the 7600 GS.

[Mike]

I'd go with the 7600gs...anything based on RV530 just sucks ass in general...completely bottle-necked by TMUs...

[Track]

I'd go with the 7600gs...anything based on RV530 just sucks ass in general...completely bottle-necked by TMUs...

You're just copying off of me :D

[David]

That's a tough call.. but I think I would still keep the 8800 GTS.

Obviously the 7600 GS.
I aiont selling the 8800 the 7600gs is for my bros agp rig and thanks guys i was thinking of going for the x1650pro since my bro likes radeons but ya he cant tell anyway so its 7600gs agp for me.

[Mike]

You're just copying off of me :D

haha...right, because clearly I have nothing original to say about video cards...;)

[Track]

haha...right, because clearly I have nothing original to say about video cards...;)

Nah, youre just a hack; just like everyone who makes state-of-the-art websites that are un-paralell by any other.

[David]

Nah, youre just a hack; just like everyone who makes state-of-the-art websites that are un-paralell by any other.
Is that an inferiority complex i sense in you Track? :lol:

[Track]

Is that an inferiority complex i sense in you Track? :lol:

Yeh, its eratating when everyone other than yourself is inferior.

[David]

Yeh, its eratating when everyone other than yourself is inferior.
If i am Inferior to you then why can i spell better then you? :D

[Track]

If i am Inferior to you then why can i spell better then you? :D

I choose to spell inccorectly to save time. ;)

[David]

I choose to spell inccorectly to save time. ;)
O rly? (Ha i just saved 3 seconds by typing o rly? instead of oh really? Beat that! But wait i just lost 30 seconds typing whats in the parenthesis :( Boy am i stupid 38 seconds now)