ATI Graphic Corruption

[mredge73]

Hi
I need a little help trying to figure out this problem that I am having with my HD3850 by MSI and thought to try this board out for some expert advice. I am experiencing graphic corruption when playing games. It is a OC card and I have tried it while factory OC and clocked down to the original specs.

Here is a link to my card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127339

I only have a few newer games to test with but it cannot play Supreme Commander Forged Alliance. I also have Spore and it used to work and now it is experiencing the same problems. I have X3 that is a few years old and it works perfectly. Folding-at-home GPU seems to work fine. Blue-ray movies play perfect at 720p through HDMI. I am using a 32" LCD TV as my monitor and using the HDMI connection. The Resolution is set at 720p and I am running windows 7 RC with the latest ATI drivers. Web browsing and simple activities work fine (I am using the card right now while I write this post). GPU temp rarely goes over 50C but at full load (Folding-at-home) it can rise to 65C. I have good airflow in the case.

I found this on tom's hardware where a 4870 is having a similar issue:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258811-33-sapphire-4870-graphic-corrupt#bas

Because I cannot describe the issue in words the link above has some screen shots similar to what I am experiencing.

Is there a way to test vram to see if that is the problem?
Is there any graphic stress tests that could help root out this problem?
Do I need to replace this card? If so, should I go with nvidia?

Please help me save some money!
Thanks

[-RK]

I can't see much in the image.

As for testing... Run four iterations of rthdribl windowed so that each covers a quarter of your screen:

http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/

Go into catalyst control and check on your temperatures as it's running. Post what the temperatures are at after 15 minutes of this.

You could also use furmark:
http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/

Those coolers on the MSI cards are usually excellent, I would be surprised if it's overheating on you. How long have you had the card?


What are the rest of your system specs (CPU, RAM, Power Supply, Motherboard, OS, etc.)? Have you tried it on a different OS? Changed fan speed? Different driver version?

Looking at the images on the similar link, it looks like a texture problem. Could be vram, could be that the core itself is going bad (texture mapping), could be something in the driver version. But that's with a 4870. Could you post an image of your problem (preferably one that we can see a little better)?

If that's what your problem looks like then try underclocking the vram and core to something really rediculously low and see if that doesn't help. If it does then gradually increase the clocks until you hit a point where the problem happens again.


So... 4 instances of rthdribl and temp check then underclocking are what to try first...

[mredge73]

I did the test both underclocking it to original specs and restoring the default values, set for 15 and took images. GPU temp was no higher than 60C.

This is on a media center pc that I build in March.
PS 430W rosewill
cpu AMD X2 5400+
mem 4 GB ram
motherboard asus M3A78-EM
os win7 rc

I ran Vista on it first but the HDMI would not work very well with vista and Spore did not work (got an exception error every time). That was when I was first suspicious of the card. I installed Windows 7 beta and the card worked fine for Spore and everything else. Windows RC this summer and it worked for a while on Spore but I have yet to get Supreme Commander to work. I don't really understand why X3 works fine, it looks like it would be heavy on the GPU. Benchmark test look good like the one you had me try and passmark. As far as drivers are concerned I have tried both the ATI and the MSI driver versions. I have also tried running it in windows XP mode.

To eliminate the HDMI, I have tried all of the above on an older vga monitor at lower resolution and the same problem exist.

Thanks for your help

[ultima]

stupid question what drivers ?

did this just start happening ?

have you tried using older drivers ?

[-RK]

Try underclocking as far BELOW the stock settings as you can go then see if you still have the problem. If you don't at the lowest possible clock speeds then increase them by 5mhz increments and then try the game.

You might also want to try older drivers like Ultima said, you should be able to find them here:

http://downloads.guru3d.com/Videocards---ATI-Catalyst-Vista---Win-7_c31.html

Try the oldest and newest for win7 (9.4 and 9.10 respectively) and make sure you uninstall the previous versions first.


What other games have you tried? It IS odd that X3 works, have you updated SUPCOM? I can't really speak for spore.

[mredge73]

I had the latest MSI drivers installed for the testing above.
One mistake that I may have made is that I did not uninstall before installing new drivers. I just assumed that it overwrote the older version.
Supreme commander never worked for me, Spore worked for Win7beta but not on Win7RC. I didn't install it until I had problems with Supcom and was curious if it would work. I have been playing X3 all summer without any problems, so the other 2 must be using something that X3 doesn't.

I will try RK's recommendations tonight and report back.

I admit that I don't have many games to try since this is the first computer that I have built since the year 2000 when I was an avid PC gamer and AMD was on top of Intel. Those games are still great, Diablo 2, Total Annihilation, Fallout 1&2, Red Baron II, Starcraft, etc... I bought Spore for my other half and I got X3 in a bargin bin thinking that I might like it and I have always wanted to play Supreme Commander (yes I updated it). I will look to see if I can find some demos online to try, any recommendations?
I don't want to buy any more games if the card is not working.

[-RK]

http://www.guru3d.com/category/driversweeper/

That utility will allow you to remove any little unwanted remnants of the driver after you uninstall it. Boot in safe mode then use driversweeper to search for ATI drivers after you've uninstalled the video driver from device manager.

Reinstalling drivers normally after that should clear up any likely problems with drivers.

[mredge73]

RK
You are AWESOME!

I uninstalled all ATI software using control panel, then un-installed the driver in the device manager, rebooted into safe mode and ran the driver sweeper, installed the newest Win7 drivers, and now Supreme Commander works! so does Spore! Nice

Thanks guys, the driver sweeper approach did the trick!
Thanks for showing me the guru3d site too!

[-RK]

Mhhmmm, some of the older ATI drivers had issues with leaving bits and pieces behind and causing some occasional troubles. That's likely what happened when you got the MSI drivers. The card manufacturers aren't known for keeping track of driver updates too well so you likely got a version with that little problem. Then when you tried to update to a newer version...


...pop goes the weasel.


Glad to help with putting humpty dumpty back together again though.

[ultima]

hence why i don't install drivers from the "manufacture"

i take it directly from ATI's site


its weird how many times i've actually seen that happen
just wasn't thinking of it

good catch RK-

[virgi]

hello,

I have similar problems with Supreme Commander running on a Sapphire Radeon HD5770 Vapor-X.
As soon as the the map is displayed, got a looot of small triangles (especially on certain maps like Crossfire Canal).
I am not sure it is exactly the same issue like the one described here, because these triangles are much smaller, some are black and others are textured with a kind of black stripes. It's possible to play but these triangles are very disturbing. Should post a picture later.

Config: Sapphire Radeon HD5770 Vapor-X, Catalyst 9.12, DirectX9.0c, Win XP SP3

First I tried to change a lot of graphic / 3D settings in the game and the CCC. Not better.
I installed DX11, same problem.
I tried older ATI Drivers but they did not recognize the HD5770. Same problem with Catalyst 9.11.

Finally I found a "solution" (I hope temporary): DOWNCLOCKING the GPU from 860MHz to 730MHz :(
For that, I simply used ATI Overdrive in the Catalyst Control Center.

By default GPU clock = 860MHz, Memory Clock = 1200MHz.
The GPU temperature is around 36°C, and a few more degrees when launching a game in SupCom, but it does not seem to be more than 45°C so I don't think this is the problem.
I made a few tests : less triangles with GPU at 800MHz, almost nothing at 750MHz, ok at 730MHz (but still a few ones randomly during the game).

Well, now it "works". But I bought a HD 5770 that should work with a GPU at least at 850MHz.
The HD5770 is quite recent. So.... where is the bug ?! Driver? Game? Or a serious problem with the card?! :confused:

(PS: should I open a new thread for that?)

[virgi]

well... it's not good.
even at 600MHz a few triangles are back after playing a few games.
the temperature remains under 50°C.

here they are, at 860MHz (default freq)

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7585/supcombugtriangle1.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5844/supcombugtriangle2.jpg

I "hope" it is "only" a problem of driver (Catalyst 9.11 + 9.12) with the recent HD5770... :(

[-RK]

Generally, you'll want to open up a new thread for a post to get the attention it deserves, but there's not much activity on these boards really so I don't see it mattering too much.

As for your problem, it most likely is a bad card. Does it happen in any other games or just supreme commander?

[virgi]

Now I have the problem even at 600MHz, it's getting worse, so the underclocking was not a solution. Even at 860 Mhz the card still remain quite cold, between 35°C and 50°C in activity.

I found a corrective patch for the VBIOS ("ONLY for SKU#11163-00 , P/N:288-7D132-000SA"). It corrected the errated number of Shaders (800 and not 720), but it did not help more.

No good!!
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2981/supcombugtriangle5.jpg

It seems to be for all the 3D games (using Direct3D?). I just tried Defcon which is very "simple" and there are also a lot of graphic bugs.
I have opened a ticket at Sapphire.

Last hope with Catalyst 10.1 to come...
But, I am afraid there is a big issue with my card!! Maybe the memory?
The other big problem is that I bought the card abroad on the net...

:(:(:(

[-RK]

Yeah, that's the card, seems like it's failing somewhere in texturing the scene.

You'll want to replace it.

[virgi]

I contacted Sapphire and opened a ticket. They made me try a new VBIOS that does not even appear on the site (012.019.000.002.036154). The support seems to be reactive and very kind. Unfortunately it did not help, so it is very probably a failure of a chip, maybe RAM! This is the first time I see such a problem, in many many years...

Meanwhile, I bought another one, exactly the same model (Vapor-X strikes back!). And the second card works perfectly! It confirms that the first has to be replaced. The new one came even with a correct BIOS to have the 800 shaders (and not 720).

It didn't feel good to make again a new expense, but I would have been without a graphic card (it becomes hard to use the computer), and I like the HD5770, I think it is a very good value: the perfs are very good, at least for me, it does not consume too much, the heat and the noise remain low (the cooler can really be heard if it goes over 50% and it's still acceptable - but I have never reached it when gaming).

So, today I sent the first card back to the retailer. When it comes back I will sell one, or put them in Crossfire!

Anyway, thank you for your help.

[Nanybidabisee]

GOOGLESNIPER2-PREMIUM.COM (http://GOOGLESNIPER2-PREMIUM.COM)

[Nanybidabisee]

GOOGLESNIPER2-PREMIUM.COM (http://GOOGLESNIPER2-PREMIUM.COM)

[Nanybidabisee]

http://WWW.GOOGLESNIPER2-PREMIUM.COM (http://GOOGLESNIPER2-PREMIUM.COM)